Listen to a reading of this article:

US Senator Joe Manchin said at the World Economic Forum on Monday that he opposes any kind of peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia.

Manchin, who at the moment is one of the most powerful elected officials in Washington, added that only the complete forcible ejection of Russia from all of Ukraine is acceptable, that the war should ideally be used to remove Putin from power, and that he and the strategists he talks to see this war as an “opportunity”.

“I am totally committed, as one person, to seeing Ukraine to the end with a win, not basically with some kind of a treaty; I don’t think that is where we are and where we should be,” Manchin said.

“I mean basically moving Putin back to Russia and hopefully getting rid of Putin,” Manchin added when asked what he meant by a win for Ukraine.

Manchin clarified that he did not mean pushing Putin back to “pre-February”, ostensibly meaning with Russia still controlling the largely Moscowloyal Crimea and supporting separatist territories in the Donbass, but with Kyiv fully reclaiming all parts of the nation.

“Oh no, I think Ukraine is determined to take their country back,” Manchin said when asked to clarify, further clarifying that he wants his call for regime change in Russia to be carried out by “the Russian people.”

“I believe strongly that I have never seen, and the people I talk strategically have never seen, an opportunity more than this, to do what needs to be done,” Manchin later added. “And Ukraine has the determination to do it. We should have the commitment to support it.”

Manchin’s comments fit in perfectly with what we know about the US-centralized empire’s real agendas in Ukraine.

Earlier this month Ukrainian media reported that UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson told the nation’s president Volodymyr Zelensky on behalf of NATO powers that “even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin, they are not.”

Last month US Secretary of “Defense” Lloyd Austin acknowledged that the goal in this war is not peace in Ukraine or the mere military defeat of Russia but to actually weaken Russia as a nation, saying “We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine.”

Last week The New York Times reported that the Biden administration is developing plans to “further choke Russia’s oil revenues with the long-term goal of destroying the country’s central role in the global energy economy.”

Just the other day Ukraine’s military intelligence chief announced that the mission has already creeped forward from the goal of defeating the Russian invaders to reclaiming the Crimean territory which was annexed by the Russian Federation in 2014.

Two months ago Biden himself acknowledged what the real game is here with an open call for regime change, saying of Putin, “For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power.”

Statements from the Biden administration in fact indicate that they expect this war to drag on for a long time, making it abundantly clear that a swift end to minimize the death and destruction is not just uninteresting but undesirable for the US empire.

This is not a proxy war with peace as an option anywhere within sight. It’s not about saving Ukrainian lives. It’s not even about beating Russia in Ukraine. It’s about achieving regime change in Moscow, no matter how many lives need to be destroyed in the process.

Peace is not on the menu.

This war could easily have been prevented with a little diplomacy and reasonable compromise. As the University of Ottawa’s Ivan Katchanovski recently explained to The Maple, “an agreement in which Ukraine promised to remain a neutral country and the fulfilment of the Minsk accords could have stopped Putin’s invasion.”

We know now that the US intelligence cartel had good visibility into what the Kremlin had planned for Ukraine, so they would have known exactly what could have been done to prevent the invasion. They knowingly chose to do none of those things, because the goal was to provoke this war the entire time and then weaponize it against Moscow.

That’s why the Biden administration has been hindering diplomatic efforts to negotiate an end to this war, why it has refused to provide Ukraine with any kind of diplomatic negotiating power regarding the possible rollback of sanctions and other US measures to help secure peace, and why Washington’s top diplomats have consistently been conspicuously absent from any kind of dialogue with their counterparts in Moscow.

Empire spinmeisters and their propagandized victims like to claim that Ukrainian forces are fighting for “peace” in Ukraine. The other day Kyiv Independent’s Illia Ponomarenko, who has called the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion his “brothers in arms,” tweeted this:

But anyone who understands this war knows this is ridiculous. Peace is not the goal in Ukraine. Most of the Ukrainians doing the fighting surely believe they are fighting for peace in their homeland, and peace is surely their intention, but that’s not something the empire will allow if the empire gets any say in the matter.

Even if Ukraine does somehow avoid being used as cannon fodder to draw Moscow into a long and costly slog as US officials have admitted was done in both Afghanistan and in Syria, and even if they do somehow manage to deliver a crushing and conclusive defeat to Moscow in the near term (which is far less probable than the western media would have you believe), that wouldn’t be the end of the war. The war would just change shape as the empire and its proxies go on the offensive against Moscow.

This war does not end with Russia being driven from Ukraine, it ends with regime change and the balkanization of the Russian Federation. Really it doesn’t end until the rise of China has been stopped and US unipolar hegemony secured. Or when the empire collapses. Or when we all die in a nuclear holocaust.

All forward motion in this war has nothing but violence as far as the eye can see on its trajectory into the future. No matter how much wealth and war machinery you pour into this conflict, that trajectory of death and destruction will just keep stretching out to the horizon. As Chris Hedges recently explained, war is the only path the empire has left open to itself.

I’ve seen some cute kids in my time, but nobody’s as adorable as people who think the US pours weapons into foreign nations in order to achieve peace.


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61 responses to “They’re Just Outright Telling Us That Peace In Ukraine Is Not An Option”

  1. Vera Gottlieb Avatar
    Vera Gottlieb

    Who asked the bloody Yanx anything?!?! Always sticking their noses…but this is nothing new. War mongering, fear mongering…American as apple pie. In debt up to their eyeballs (and even higher) but always telling others how to this, how to that…A country not worth emulating. Does Zelensky even realize how DEEP in debt Ukraine is? How much it will have to repay the US?

    1. WW2 started because the US refused to forgive the WW1 debt to the UK and France. Then the UK and France had to collect reparations from Germany to repay the US.
      It sounds to be like the US is trying to get European countries in debt at this time. Then US will refuse to forgive the debt, and voila – WW3 starts. The bankers and financiers will make sure to get paid.

      1. As long as the US of As exists, there will never be peace in this world. Fact.

  2. What they do not say, btw I did not read this article, is that without peace, without uniting behind a huge peace movement focused like a laser on peace, living in balance with everything on this planet and putting other people before our own interests our darkest, the most unimaginable fears are going to manifest and while the timing of that is unknown the process in unfolding before our very eyes right now.

    I love Caitlin and what she says, but in this case reading this was simply not necessary.

    1. America’s politicians don’t want peace and mostly send our money to where there is a war going on, which is why we have too much debt and not enough hospitals. If we want any money for ourselves, America will have to start a war against America.

  3. “Look past the flesh. Look through the soft gelatin of these dull cow eyes and see your enemy!”

  4. These insane oligarchs and their minions believe they should rule the world even though they have made a disaster of the things they already have control over… I don’t get it.

  5. The truly horrifying thing is that there will never ever be peace on our planet while the US is the hegemon. Not ever. They will never stop until they plunder the entire world. Putin is preventing them from plundering Russia, so Putin must go. Except he has no intention of going, and Russia likes him there. So what is the solution? Really, there is only one solution. The US must be taken down. Because we will never have peace on our beautiful planet otherwise.
    Sorry friends in the US, I love you dearly, but you can’t stop it, so someone has to. It’s as simple as that. You were asleep at the wheel, while the evil Cabal (no longer a conspiracy theory) took over.
    So, bring on Revelations. The weapon of indignation out of the North. The whole shebang. Let’s get it over with so that we can rebuild and build a better world without this bully pushing and shoving, demanding and stealing. We’ve all had enough of it.

    1. I’m a US citizen and agree the only thing that will allow peace and sustainability to flower on earth is to end US hegemony. It will be horrible and difficult. But too many citizens still believe “the American way of life is non-negotiable” no matter how resource intensive it is, and how many wars need fighting to secure resources to sustain it. And the psychopaths at the top don’t care how many lives are lost either. There are people waking up to what US wars are all about, but it is a slow process.

      We are watching the beginning of the end of the US-NATO empire, and quite a lot of the world is quite happy about it.

    2. Agree with you Helen.
      Still remember a young family member wandering around in a daze after 9/11 muttering “You can’t do that.. not to the US.. you can’t do that…”
      I had to gently tell him that superhero’s don’t exist, Bruce Willis and his crowd aren’t riding to the rescue – and yes, it has been done to the US. Just as they have done to many, many countries around the world.
      Casual shooters take their time picking off US civilians while movies are made lauding the psychopathic actions of their own military snipers. Death imitating art.
      Capitalism is not about ‘market share’ or even co-operation, it’s about domination – and you’re right – Russia has had enough.
      Strangely enough, but fitting a pattern – the countries the US configure as ‘hostile’ more than likely have free healthcare!


    Henry Kissinger, not known for saying things that embarrass him the next week, says that Ukraine should cede territory to Russia in return for peace, and should do so promptly. He says that we live in “a totally new era” in terms of how quickly use of modern weapons could escalate to total destruction, and that we should be mindful of that, and mindful of the firm positions of other parties…
    “Negotiations need to begin in the next two months before it creates upheavals and tensions that will not be easily overcome.
    Ideally, the dividing line should be a return to the status quo ante.
    Pursuing the war beyond that point would not be about the freedom of Ukraine, but a new war against Russia itself,” he said.

    Pepe Escobar has a good, detailed and broad update again. Here is a little of it:
    Ukraine is the Holy Grail of international corruption. That $40 billion can be a game-changer for only two classes of people: First, the US military-industrial complex, and second, a bunch of Ukrainian oligarchs and neo-connish NGOs, that will corner the black market for weapons and humanitarian aid, and then launder the profits in the Cayman Islands.
    A quick breakdown of the $40 billion reveals $8.7 billion will go to replenish the US weapons stockpile (thus not going to Ukraine at all); $3.9 billion for USEUCOM (the ‘office’ that dictates military tactics to Kiev); $5 billion for a fuzzy, unspecified “global food supply chain”; $6 billion for actual weapons and “training” to Ukraine; $9 billion in “economic assistance” (which will disappear into selected pockets); and $0.9 billion for refugees.

    Moon of Alabama fills in some other details, and also comments that it “feels insane when Henry Kissinger is the only sane voice in the room”.
    The UK support to break the Russian blockade of Odesa is fact-checked. Russia is not blockading Odesa. Ukraine mined the harbor. Things like that.
    The US DoD seems to have accidentally hung all of the Ukrainian flags upside down at a press briefing.

  7. Manchin is just doing his job, so is Biden. This happens all the time. They say what they want to say and then ‘clarify’ it to something else. Only 11 Repubs out of the entire Congress voted against the $40b, so the gov joins most of the media in this war. The alternative would be restoring the US manufacturing base and our lovely oligarchs ceding power to the citizens, providing healthcare, pensions and free education – wait, can’t do that, the rich must be richer to get off world.

  8. I don’t know how many USA citizens are aware of how power is held and always has been held. So I don’t believe any rational, intelligent outcome can be achieved. The poisoned food the mass of people eat makes for a diseased population heading toward early death as is the conscious plan of the nazi rulers. I see huge disintegration and social chaos become the norm. The gun is in everyone’s hands. The gun is being used mostly against other commoners now. The ruling nazis have a domestic military called “police” that shoot first to restore order. So the outcome? Gates and his peer pigs pull off more control methods until commoners who protest are dead. Political protesters are now called terrorists. The covid vaccine is murdering millions. GMO foods are 90% of the mass diet. Chemicals are in every baby. I just don’t see any chance for a sane reversal no matter how often the reality is presented by progressive writers.

    1. I love your story, should be a film. May veer into heavy speculation, but WTF. Back in the day never thought Gates would make supervillain status.

    2. The strangest thing is that we all know that the mass produced food is poisoned, but still eat it.

  9. Russia is in control of this war and every war for at least 10 more years. The United States of Israel and NATO puppets can only kick and scream like children. Russia has changed the world order, here and now.

    1. Then I wish they’d reinforce it. I’m so over all this BS.
      We need to get back to a sane world with sane leadership.
      The US is a menace.

      1. If things continue as they are, Ukraine will run out not of arms but of those trained and willing to fight. Sure, there are some outside (who hate Russia) who can join, esp if money is there too, as well as various exmils etc just doing their jobs. And when their numbers get low and if we are still around by then maybe different voices will get louder in the West, before the next stage?

  10. Joe Manchin is full of shit. Im glad that his ilk are doubling down on, desperately trying to re-position the trap that blew up in their faces. These Davos scum are NOT used to having to admit in front of the world that they fucked up, MUCH LESSS having to admit it, by taking a brutally humiliating world historic defeat , but that’s what’s happening. GOOD!. Many have the pinion that “this war did not have to happen”…I agree…the US could have NOT fomented a right wing coup-d’etat in the Ukraine in 2014.It could have refrained from doing that shit. It could have dealt with Russia reasonably and according the spirit and the letter of the “international law” that it flouts unceasingly – it might have, but it didn’t because that was the whole plan. FUCK the Minsk agreement -atrocities. In fairness to the nazis, Russia never intended for them to be a credible solution. Russia needed time to build its economic and military resources to the point that it could act decisively, and Minsk bought that time. During the 8 years it took, the US and its NATO co conspirators could have returned to sanity. That was NEVER going to happen. They AMPED UP THE HUBRIS , to OUTRAGEOUS heights. Now they can wallow in the consequences. Joe is in denial..his side cant win now and they cant admit defeat. Oh dear ,FINALLY ! it really fucking sucks to be Joe Manchin.Haleluja

  11. Manchin cheerleading for Kiev at the WEF, why am I not surprised? The senator from WV is one of several American politicians named in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s exposé ( ) of activities benefiting the Ukie criminal oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky, in his money laundering schemes in the American Midwest. Kolomoisky is the corrupt billionaire who allegedly set up the original Azov Brigade as his personal paramilitary force, like the German Nazi SA, to intimidate his political opponents when he was governor of the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast. In that position and as director of Ukraine’s Privatbank he apparently stole everything he could get his hands on. He also bankrolled Zelensky’s 2019 presidential candidacy, that saw an inexperienced TV comedian given the role to act in real life that he had played on the popular sitcom “Servant of the People.” And Kolomoisky is (or was) a stakeholder in the infamous Burisma energy company that ensnared the easily corruptible drug-addicted son of the current US President. He is also a wanted man in Israel for duping a fellow dual-citizen gangster of $20 million in a coal deal fraud.

    Russian troops are fighting for a more in Ukraine than just the civil rights of the ethnic Russians in that godforsaken citadel of corruption and racial hatred.

  12. I think it is more likely that European Union will fall apart before Russia. because of this Nato-caused and Nato-supported war in Ukraine.
    I also think “World Economic Forum” is not a suitable name for the WEF crowd, because they certainly don’t care about the world. These folk clearly do not care about poor people of the world starving as the war in Ukraine drags on, as World Bank predicts (reported by Yahoo Finance yesterday). Of course they don’t, or they would have opposed the US sanctions against 30% of the world population, who are already poor.
    Perhaps WEF is a typo and the correct name is WTF.

  13. US belligerence = denial of inferiority of US perspective on the world.

  14. From easily accessible web sites, here are some statistics about West Virginia and Joe Manchin.
    West Virginia is the second-poorest U.S. state, with a $48,850 median household income and a poverty rate of 17.54%. West Virginia’s educational attainment levels are on the low side, with the lowest percentage of adults with a Bachelor’s degree or higher, and has the second-lowest life expectancy of 74.8.
    Population of West Virginia in 2020: 1.81 million
    Now a little bit about the politically powerful West Virginian Senator Joe Manchin. In the general election for U.S. Senate West Virginia on November 6, 2018, incumbent Joe Manchin III defeated Patrick Morrisey and Rusty Hollen.
    Joe Manchin III (D) got 49.6% of votes for a total of 290,510 votes
    Patrick Morrisey (R) got 46.3% of votes for a total of 271,113 votes
    Rusty Hollen (L) got 4.2% of votes for a total of 24,411 votes
    Unless he causes nuclear extinction of the human species beforehand, Joe holds the office of US Senator until January of 2025.

  15. Perhaps when Washington gives back Kosovo to the Serbs (or North America to its native peoples) Russia might consider giving back all those lands in Novorussya populated mostly by Russians to the racist Ukies who shamelessly oppressed them.
    Sorry, this is yet another example of America picking the wrong side and standing for evil and injustice. Russia will be doing the world a favor if it can make Washington rue the day it started this war. I doubt anyone outside the Empire of Lies would cry for the bastards in their defeat. Many of us INSIDE the empire would gladly suck it up and admit that our warmongering leaders had reaped what they sowed. They need to be in prison, not political power. Finally, our taxes could go to serving the needs of the American PEOPLE, not the mass murdering plutocrats.

  16. This is so much like what they did with Venezuela. They told us Maduro was a tyrant who would be defeated any day now thanks to truckloads of American weapons. Then he kept getting reelected by the people who were supposed to be his victims, and it got a little embarrassing. They did what politicians do by making up a face-saving story about someone else being Venezuela’s “real” president. That’s what I think will happen with Russia; America’s politicians will pick some random guy, pretend he is Russia’s “real” president, hand him some money, and all congratulate each other.

    1. Washington and the CIA already picked him. It was supposed to be that Navalny character who Russia finally put back in jail to finish his prison sentence for defrauding some French corporation. Navalny was stupid enough to return to Russia from Germany after Washington attempted its second fake poisoning of a Russian opposition figure. Remember, first the Brits poisoned the Skripals with “Novochuk” to set a precedent. Later the Germans purportedly tried the same with Navalny. For some reason the CIA thinks that Navalny has more than the 2% support he polls among the Russian people and that they would pick him to replace Putin.

      1. Novichock must be the weakest poison ever, none of them ever die from it!

        1. Undoubtedly by design. Washington only wanted to make it look like Russia poisoned these people, not to actually kill them. Like I said, they wanted Navalny to succeed Putin–an impossible dream because the guy never had the support the CIA assumed. However, the American clown show never stops trying to run the whole effing world. Doesn’t the world get tired of it?

  17. Susan Mercurio Avatar
    Susan Mercurio

    Manchin has gained his power by doing what “The Squad” wouldn’t do: refuse to sign a bill until he gets what he wants. This isn’t majority rule; Manchin now controls the United States government.

    (BTW, the people of West Virginia are organizing to get him out, due to his profiteering from the fossil fuel company he controls )

  18. I’m calling for a regime change in Washington DC!

  19. West Virginia sen. Joe Manchin is a reactionary white trash cracker cum shithead. He’s like a human book-end of sen. Tom Cotton from Arkansas: anything humane, pro-public, etc they are totally against. They are the good old boys from down south, pro-war and pro military industrial complex. The ‘dumb southerner’ or ‘redneck cracker’ epithet suits them: they’re ignorant–and proud of it! While 500+ Ukrainian soldiers are killed with every passing day, this redneck asshole from W. Virginia poses for the camera at the World Economic Forum to glibly demand that ‘the Russians totally retreat from Ukraine and that we must also overthrow Putin’ (as long as someone else is doing the fighting/dying and he just cheerleads from the sidelines of course). Manchin is the type of total, complete asshole that Eugene Debs railed against in his famous speech against the USA getting into WWI, here is a passage from it:

    “They have always taught and trained you to believe it to be your patriotic duty to go to war and to have yourselves slaughtered at their command. But in all the history of the world you, the people, have never had a voice in declaring war, and strange as it certainly appears, no war by any nation in any age has ever been declared by the people.

    And here let me emphasize the fact—and it cannot be repeated too often—that the working class who fight all the battles, the working class who make the supreme sacrifices, the working class who freely shed their blood and furnish the corpses, have never yet had a voice in either declaring war or making peace. It is the ruling class that invariably does both. They alone declare war and they alone make peace.

    Yours not to reason why;
    Yours but to do and die.

    That is their motto and we object on the part of the awakening workers of this nation.

    If war is right let it be declared by the people. You who have your lives to lose, you certainly above all others have the right to decide the momentous issue of war or peace.”

    Whole speech here-

    Read it!!!

    1. Right now Manchin is acting like a useful idiot to block the woke craziness that the Dems are trying to ram through. You might not like Manchin’s agenda, but you sure wouldn’t like Biden’s complete package, especially all those additional trillions in tax money that the Dems wanted to squander. He’s saved at least a couple of trillion. If the GOP had one additional senator (if the Georgia aberration had not occurred) Manchin would have no effective voice whatsoever and the all the programs he has blocked would still have been blocked. If no Manchin, Dopey Joe gets a blank check like he did on the Ukraine travesty.

  20. David Edwards Avatar
    David Edwards

    The examples cited from Joe Manchin & Ukraine’s military intelligence chief – fair enough, they do back up this post’s framing.
    The other examples seem weaker. The Boris Johnson example may be valid, but it’s difficult to verify, since the source quoted (Ukrainska Pravda) doesn’t give any details beyond vague anonymous sources. The quote (in quote marks), which Caitlin provides, isn’t actually a quote from Boris Johnson or the anonymous sources – it’s just the assertion made by the Ukrainska Pravda piece. (That’s not a criticism of Caitlin, it’s just to clarify that she’s quoting nobody but article’s unsourced assertion).
    The well-known one-off Biden line just after the invasion ““For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power” – it says something; I’m not sure it proves there’s always been some big plan for regime change in Moscow. And the other examples seem couched in terms simply reacting to Russia’s hostile invasion, and providing aid to Ukraine for as long as Russia continues with the war (which Putin could end immediately, btw).

    1. David Edwards Avatar
      David Edwards

      Incidentally, I’d assumed Joe Manchin was a Republican, given what he said, and the way he says it. Quite surprised to find he’s a Democrat. Not a good look for the Dems.

      1. Susan Mercurio Avatar
        Susan Mercurio

        I believe that he used to be a Republican, but he changed coats.

    2. Susan Mercurio Avatar
      Susan Mercurio

      And Zelensky could end it immediately. In fact, he’s already said that a negotiation is the only way it will end and that we should be working towards it, but that won’t do for the war criminals in Washington.

      1. David Edwards Avatar
        David Edwards

        You mean Zelensky could meet all Putin’s conditions for Putin to end it.

    3. That Putin could end? You mean that Washington could have nipped in the bud by not being so bellicose and pushing the war like their lives depended on it, specifically by rationally responding to Russia’s legitimate grievances on the nuclear missile threat that the US purposely holds over them, from Polish and Romanian territory and soon to be from Ukrainian territory unless the racist Nazi Ukies, who spent eight long years committing genocide against the Donbas Russians, deservedly get their asses kicked. Instead of responding to Russia’s pleas that all parties have their security concerns addressed Washington inflamed the situation by basically telling the Russians to go fuck themselves. It was US policy that set the war in motion, starting from the Maidan coup that they instigated and paid for. Have you been asleep for the last eight years or what? If you like, we can go back even further to blame Washington, back to Gorbachev’s administration during which Bushdaddy’s state department had promised Russia that Nato would not advance ONE INCH to the East, yet now the liars are on Russia’s Western border everywhere but Belarus. Base your arguments on facts please, otherwise they are worthless.

      1. David Edwards Avatar
        David Edwards

        Look, it’s fairly simple: ending a war is ultimately down to the party waging the war. The party waging the war is Russia. But by all means bend over backwards trying to avoid this basic fact.

        1. Nonsense. Russia has very specific objectives that would not be met if they chose to bug out and give the Ukies and the US a victory which they are trying very hard to achieve–especially the US with the infusion of $55 billion, the kind of money Uncle Sam will not even spend on his own people (Covid aid was scotched to make the Ukraine payment. Zelensky and the Ukraine are being totally stupid and deferential to the US. Ukraine accomplishes nothing from all the lives it chooses to sacrifice at the behest of Washington. The longer they fight, the more chances they take the greater their losses in the end. Being Uncle Sam bee-yotch is self-destructive for Ukraine. Putin would call off the dogs in a New York second if Zelensky surrendered. Simple as that.

        2. Kiev is who started the war in Ukraine by shelling the Donbass after the US-backed 2014 nazi coup. Putin only intervened on 24 February to stop an escalation by Kiev planned for 5 March. If Putin decides to stop the war tomorrow, we’ll get back to square one with Kiev shelling Donbass plus… with an even more deadly weaponry lately sent by the US. Who’s bending over backward to avoid this basic fact now?

        3. You mean…. ‘bend over backwards trying to avoid this basic falsehood. the one I keep repeating (Repetition being a subtle form of brain-washing) every day on this site since I recently started posting on here.’
          There you go, THAT fixed it.

          PS I know it’s difficult not to respond to someone dissembling falsehoods so as to try and counter the truth, the reality, but I would suggest that posters just ‘respond’ to DEs posts with a simple message:

          Shill Alert!!!
          And leave it at that. His purpose on here is twofold: 1. To counter the truth regarding Ukraine; and 2. To just wind people up day after day after day.

        4. pretzelattack Avatar

          you still pretend that the main cause of this war isn’t the US and NATO. last thread you warned vaguely abut tying the persecution of Julian Assange to US lies about this war. you are shameless.

  21. Russia sees winning the Ukraine operation as necessary to the survival of the state and they are probably right. What would the U.S. do to ensure the survival of it’s government.

    Either Russia comes out of this with some sort of a “win” they can live with or a nuclear exchange is quite possible. Is Ukraine’s corrupt government worth that risk?

    1. Washington does all kinds of scurrilous things without any approach whatsoever to its existential survival. Based on the degree of stupidity, I’d say they do it just for the hell of it much of the time. Certainly they do it simply to intimidate the rest of the world, including their own pathetic allies in Nato.

  22. imo, Manchin’s admission of the goal is, like everything else the deep state’s puppets say, misleading at best.
    Is a weaker Russia a goal? Yes. But the larger goal is to subjugate all the people of the world to the deep state. All the people of the world as serfs, by making them more completely dependent on the state.
    We must be hungry and fearful for our lives and the lives of our families before that can happen.
    So disease, pestilence, and starvation are the short term goals.
    It’s hard to fight back when you are hungry and your loved ones are threatened.

    1. David Edwards Avatar
      David Edwards

      Subjugation of “all the people of the world to the deep state”. Is this a parody? If so, I like it!

      1. Ted Christian Avatar
        Ted Christian

        I saw pictures of Russian soldiers processing all the prisoners at the steel plant and I didn’t get a “Russia surrendering” or “Putin being removed from office” vibe. I don’t think Russia is going to surrender until sometime after the Ukrainian military gets uncrushed, however that’s supposed to happen, and Putin’s approval rating among Russians may actually be higher than that of any US president in history, so I think that’s going to be a headwind for the plan about the Russians deposing him. Actually, the Biden/Manchin plans don’t seem very realistic to me, but then I’m not a delusional sociopath.

        1. That Manchin or any other member of the American congress speaks of such scenarios as inevitable, even slightly realistic or at all desirable just underscores how irrational and removed from reality they really are. When all this faked American propaganda that has set the entire West against Russia finally gets deconstructed, no one in favor of retaining a civilised world based in law and justice for all, without race hatred and genocide, will want to ever admit to supporting Ukraine for even a femptosecond. Unless fascism becomes even more fashionable in Europe, the EU is going to be plagued with millions of corrupt Ukrainian parasites living in their midst for a long time to come and they will regret it. There are many reasons that Ukraine was both the poorest and the most corrupt country in all of Europe, and Putin was never one of them.

  23. Joe Manchin is a POS. Any corporation can have him for the price of a small boat. Joe is a shit shill.

    An incomplete human being in the world is not a good reason to be bent out of shape. As Marcus Aurelius says,

    “Say to yourself in the early morning: I shall meet today ungrateful, violent, treacherous, envious, uncharitable men. All of these things have come upon them through ignorance of real good and ill… I can neither be harmed by any of them, for no man will involve me in wrong, nor can I be angry with my kinsman or hate him; for we have come into the world to work together.Say to yourself in the early morning: I shall meet today ungrateful, violent, treacherous, envious, uncharitable men. All of these things have come upon them through ignorance of real good and ill… I can neither be harmed by any of them, for no man will involve me in wrong, nor can I be angry with my kinsman or hate him; for we have come into the world to work together.”

    So I can’t be bent out of shape by Joe Manchin ( I want to spell it Joe Mansion). Joe is a POS, end of story. However people voted for Joe and there is a Marcus quote for that too.

    “The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject.”

    1. Assholes come and assholes go in the US Congress. Joe was one of them. This was just his 15 minutes of fame. Come next year the balance of power in the Senate is sure to strip him of all the influence he seems to have today. The dipshit in the White House, also named Joe, seems rather more problematic to me, though that too shall pass, unless the fucker decides to go deep with the nuclear football. I can’t see the deep state letting him do that unless it is also their agenda…which, sadly, it may well be. None of them are exactly sane.

      1. pretzelattack Avatar

        he is very useful to the democratic party in his present role, so they can still pretend to their constituents that they want things like national healthcare, or want to do something about global warming. they don’t.

        1. He is more than merely useful to the Democrats. He is one reason they can claim the majority in the Senate (it’s 50:50 with VP Harris breaking the tie). If a GOPer held that seat the Dems could not set the agenda as to what bills get debated and voted on. Plus they would have no majority and lose most of the votes. Manchin still votes with them a lot, but not on all issues across the board.

          1. pretzelattack Avatar

            they dont use that advantage, any more than they did when Obama had both parts of congress. his main use is as an object to blame for their inaction.

  24. For god sake, the empire should collapse

    1. For humanity’s sake as well.

  25. Manchin is an idiot–anyone who’s heard some of his other great thoughts on a wide range of subjects knows this. But his imbecile intransigence and utter ignorance and wildly overly optimistic belief in the US’ omnipotence mark him as a true blue right wing Democrat. Perhaps this will finally disabuse the strongly held liberal belief that Manchin is somehow a “Democrat in name only.” This irrational hatred of Russia and Putin is the chief belief that sustains the Dem Party.

    1. You know, frankly, I don’t even think that it is their “belief.” Rather, it is their expedient. They have access to the facts, they know better, but they are willing to lie till the cows come home to meet their geopolitical objectives, which is the dislodge Putin from office, cripple Russia, fragment that country and seize its natural resources.
      Their global strategy was all mapped out in the PNAC document (Project for the New American Century). The critical subtext is the “Wolfowitz Doctrine” which baldly states that Washington must not only maintain its hegemony over the world, but take active steps to cripple any other state that even looks like it might aspire to equaling the status of the US and sharing power with it over the globe. Washington gives itself the right to strangle any incipient new competitor for power and potential world domination in the crib. To this mission they have deliberately targeted Russia and China, dedicating every resource of this country and every tax dollar plus whatever they can borrow from the Fed, no matter the severity of the needs of its tax-paying citizens. That is why YOU (unless you are one of the insider elites) will suffer along with all the other people of this world.

      1. pretzelattack Avatar

        which is by the way the strategy of republicans also. Bush 2 did more to carry out this strategy than anybody. targeting Russia and China is a continuation of policies that have made the US rich by making other countries pay for its wars.

  26. Manchin, another “Death-Before-Dishonor-Democrat” thinks no one can see he is bereft of honor.

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